Saturday, December 03, 2005

"PRIVATE FRANCHISE"?? YEAH, ;-)) RIGHT!

A reader (SNOTURKY) posted some interesting comments on my previous post, HOW I GOT INTO THIS.... . In my rebuttal to that comment of his, I got a chance to get into the whole 'Private Franchise' Conceit, that Quixtar IBOs frequently use when presenting the plan. Quixtar/Amway IBOs are taught to use a lot of analogies that on the surface look valid, but have no substantive validity. This 'Private Franchising' analogy is one that they use a lot, especially to justify the use of the System. Of all the conceits that Quixtar/Amway IBOs use, this is the one that ticks me off the most - because the analogy is TOTALLY BASELESS. I am posting SNOTURKY's comments and my rebuttal here, and I will let you, the reader decide... SNOTURKY sent a second counter-rebuttal to my rebuttal, which I will post along with my rebuttal to that, on the next post.


  • SNOTURKY -> I agree with your principles, but I don't think you understand the business completely.It is a simple franchise, it just looks funny because it doesn't cost a million to open and upkeep. Compare it to Taco Bell. I could own a Taco Bell, or several if I wanted to. I could sell one of my Taco Bell's to someone else, and take a cut of their sales, whether they buy the tacos or their customers do. Same Idea.I'm sure you'll say that if everyone owns a Taco Bell, no one can make any money. Yup, that's absolutely right... and no different than any other business on Earth. That is also why they have a requirement to have certain sales to non-owning customers every month.Now you're going to tell me that some people aren't honest about whether they meet those reqs or not.You are trying to claim that the business is illegal because some people who use it do unethical or illegal things.Better outlaw knives because someone might use one illegally.I do not necesarilly agree with what certain people in the business do, what they have told people to do, or what they have said about the business, but I can say this - The business itself is totally legitimate.The easiest way to sum up the business model is this:Pretend that you have a choice to shop at Target or K-Mart. Target is just Target, but K-Mart will give you a % savings based upon the amount of money you spend there. And what's more, is that your friend can do it to. He will get his savings, but you'll get a referal fee as well.You can talk about the products all you want, but the truth is that higher quality stuff costs more. I have done a few comparisons myself quite a while ago and have found that most of the stuff is cheaper, not to mention far better.All the business is asking you to do is to change your buying habits and drive business to the internet. You buy everything you from your own company. Don't penny pinch. If you are complaining because you could spend all the time it takes to hop in you car, spend gas, put wear on your car, fight traffic, waste money on spontaneous buying, wait in line, haul groceries to the car, drive home, haul them into the house, and save 12 cents, then this. or any business, is not for you. You have to think like a business owner, not a consumer.Quixtar, nor anyone, guarantess that you will make money from only buying stuff. In no business in the world can you make money without providing a good or service. It is up to you to find customers in order to start making money.Also consider this: Could you make a successful Quixtar business without ever signing up a single IBO? Of course you can. Then you are not a franchise owner, but a product marketer. Some people do that.

SNOTURKY -> I agree with your principles, but I don't think you understand the business completely.

PERCEPTIVE -> GLAD to know that you agree with my principles. I presume you are referring to CHRISTIAN principles, and I presume I don't have to explain what they are? So, IF I prove to you that the Quixtar Business is inherently UNETHICAL, you WILL QUIT the business, right? And you WILL TELL all the other people that you have RECRUITED, to QUIT? Promise me that?

SNOTURKY -> It is a simple franchise, it just looks funny because it doesn't cost a million to open and upkeep. Compare it to Taco Bell. I could own a Taco Bell, or several if I wanted to. I could sell one of my Taco Bell's to someone else, and take a cut of their sales, whether they buy the tacos or their customers do. Same Idea.

PERCEPTIVE -> Okay, so you sell one of your Taco Bells to someone else, and take a cut of their sales - I guess you are referring to a partnership here? Now what happens if you and that guy (the two OWNERS of this Taco Bell franchise) are the only ones who consume the Tacos sold at this franchise? What happens if there are NO CUSTOMERS who buy the food, BECAUSE THE PRICES ARE TOO HIGH, OR IT DOESN'T REPRESENT GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY? The business would SHUT DOWN, right? Okay. Now, what if YOU KNEW that the PRICES ARE TOO HIGH AND IT'S NOT GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY, I.E. CUSTOMERS OUTSIDE OF THE BUSINESS WOULDN'T BUY IT (as IS the case with Quixtar)? And, let's say, INSPITE OF KNOWING THIS TRUTH, YOU DID NOT TELL THE POTENTIAL BUYER OF THE FRANCHISE, THIS UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH, AND HE ENDS UP BUYING THE FRANCHISE AND LOSING MONEY. Would you agree with me, that WHAT YOU DID HERE WAS UNETHICAL? Let's take this further. Quixtar/Amway IBOs constantly talk about McDonald's Franchisees having to go Hamburger University for training, and compare the SYSTEM to that. Here's the DIFFERENCE. McDonald's Franchisees have to go to Hamburger University ONLY ONCE, and the cost of the training is ONLY A FRACTION OF THE SALES FOR A STORE. Sure, they will have ongoing updates to their training when new products or systems are introduced, but again, the COSTS ARE A VERY VERY SMALL FRACTION OF THEIR SALES. But, with Quixtar, the SO-CALLED training SYSTEM [I can't help doubling over in laughter every time I hear about the ;-) SYSTEM] that is forced upon the IBOs, THE COSTS INVARIABLY EXCEED THEIR SALES COMMISSIONS/BONUSES. PLUS, McDonald's/TacoBell WOULD NEVER NEVER EVER GIVE INDIVIDUAL FRANCHISEES A CUT OF THE TRAINING SYSTEM COSTS!!!! I am sure you will counter with the argument that these costs are an investment, and that eventually their sales bonuses will exceed the cost of the system. But HERE's the rub. The SO-CALLED TRAINING SYSTEM/TOOLS INVARIABLY DO NOT PROVIDE ANY INFORMATION AT ALL ABOUT RUNNING THE BUSINESS! I have listened to dozens of tapes and CDs and they are usually HYPE about where this business is HEADED, or HYPE about how GOOD the SYSTEM is, or HYPE about how a job is not good for financial security, or that you SHOULD use the SYTEM IF YOU HAVE TO SUCCEED. The second kind of CD/Tape, can be summarized in THREE SENTENCES - JOB, NOT GOOD, NO SECURITY. CONVENTIONAL BUSINESS TOO RISKY. ONE BUSINESS GOOD, THE AMWAY/QUIXTAR BUSINESS. ;-)) LOL!! No kidding! I have listened to dozens of tapes whose message can be summarized to essentially those three sentences! And each of these THREE sentences are usually supported by UNSUBSTANTIATED/UNLIKELY ANECDOTES, OUTDATED STATISTICS, BLATANT FALSEHOODS, HALF-TRUTHS etc. I am being prospected by a guy (decent Christian guy, but totally deluded) right now, who is in the DexterYager System, and he gave me some CDs to listen to. I am reeling him in slowly, I am going to buy him and his wife a nice lunch this Sunday after church, and then poke holes in his whole presentation and then try to DE-CULTIFY ;-)) him. One of those CDs that he gave me has that famous quote, 98% of people are either dead or broke by age 65 - I will let the readers read this link and decide for themselves, the accuracy of that statement. http://amquix.info/amway_retirement_legend.html

SYSTEM, MY FOOT! Gimme a break!!

So, to SUMMARIZE, the Taco Bell Franchise that you sold to another guy and that you are taking a cut off of the sales - the Guy who bought the franchise WILL LOSE MONEY, BECAUSE THE PRODUCTS ARE NOT GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY, AND HE CAN'T RETAIL THE PRODUCTS TO CONSUMERS WHO ARE NOT IN THE BUSINESS. Secondly, he WILL LOSE MONEY, BECAUSE HE WILL BE BRAINWASHED INTO USING A SO-CALLED TRAINING SYSTEM THAT IS TOTALLY WORTHLESS, AND WILL COST MORE THAN HIS SALES BONUSES. Thirdly, YOU HAVEN'T TOLD HIM THAT YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BECAUSE YOU WILL ALSO GET (WHEN YOU REACH DIRECT) A CUT OF THE COST OF THE TRAINING SYSTEM!!

So, IT WOULD BE UNETHICAL FOR YOU TO SELL THIS FRANCHISE TO HIM, RIGHT? And, YOU BEING THE PRINCIPLED, CHRISTIAN GUY, YOU ARE GOING TO STOP DOING THIS RIGHT? And, ALSO INFORM YOUR OTHER RECRUITS ABOUT THE TRUTH?

SNOTURKY -> I'm sure you'll say that if everyone owns a Taco Bell, no one can make any money. Yup, that's absolutely right... and no different than any other business on Earth. That is also why they have a requirement to have certain sales to non-owning customers every month.Now you're going to tell me that some people aren't honest about whether they meet those reqs or not. You are trying to claim that the business is illegal because some people who use it do unethical or illegal things. Better outlaw knives because someone might use one illegally.

PERCEPTIVE -> GREAT! So, you DO ADMIT that RETAILING is the ONLY way to PROFITABILITY! But, here's the problem - QUIXTAR PRODUCTS CAN NOT BE RETAILED SUCCESSFULLY BECAUSE THEY ARE OVERPRICED!! If any reader doesn't agree with me, he/she can become a member for $20 for a year, and do a price comparison themselves. Or go through all the links on the above post, which have price comparisons. Also, tangentially you brought up the problem of OVERSATURATION and UNHEALTHY COMPETITION in a specific market. Tim, on the RandomObservations Blog did a FANTASTIC job of addressing this issue. I will let the readers read this thread and make up their minds. Readers might also want to click on the 'Quixtar' link on his blog under the 'Topics' section and read all his posts. MARVELOUS EXPOSITION of the economics of this so-called 'business'.

SNOTURKY -> I do not necesarilly agree with what certain people in the business do, what they have told people to do, or what they have said about the business, but I can say this - The business itself is totally legitimate.

PERCEPTIVE -> Okay, let's see. RICH DEVOS (after clicking on the link, scroll down about half-way to read what he had to say), one of the FOUNDERS of the company himself, talked in his DirectlySpeakingTapes (you can listen to it at www.amquix.info) about all the abuses, deceptions, income misrepresentations, system-money, conflicts of interest, cult-like-tactics etc. ALMOST 25 YEARS AGO. THEY WERE AWARE OF IT 25 YEARS AGO, AND THEY WERE AWARE THAT IT WAS NOT AN ISOLATED PROBLEM BUT IT WAS A BROAD SYSTEMIC PROBLEM!! HE SAID THEY WOULD CRACK DOWN ON IT, BUT DIDN'T!! AND THE PROBLEMS, CONTINUE TO THIS DAY! THE VERY SAME, EXACT PROBLEMS!!! We are NOT talking about the isolated IBO doing something unethical! THIS IS A SYSTEMATIC PROBLEM THAT HAS CONTINUED, WITH THE KNOWLEDGE AND COMPLICITY OF THE AMWAY/QUIXTAR CORPORATION'S OWNERS, FOR 25 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!

SOME LEGITIMACY, THAT!!!

SNOTURKY -> You can talk about the products all you want, but the truth is that higher quality stuff costs more. I have done a few comparisons myself quite a while ago and have found that most of the stuff is cheaper, not to mention far better.

PERCEPTIVE -> Higher ;-)) Quality? Do you have any independent studies/reports to support that contention? If so, PLEASE do tell us about it. Although I won't be holding my breath.

It's funny how at first you say, "truth is that higher quality stuff costs more". Seems to me you are implying/agreeing ;-) that Quixtar products do cost more. THEN you turn around and say, "I have done a few comparisons myself quite a while ago and have found that most of the stuff is cheaper". So, what is it? Are Quixtar Products HIGHER QUALITY or are they CHEAPER??? CARE TO POST YOUR PRICE COMPARISON HERE?

SNOTURKY -> Pretend that you have a choice to shop at Target or K-Mart. Target is just Target, but K-Mart will give you a % savings based upon the amount of money you spend there. And what's more, is that your friend can do it to. He will get his savings, but you'll get a referal fee as well.

PERCEPTIVE -> Yes, but, K-Mart products ARE COMPETITIVELY-PRICED!! So, it is easy to refer somebody else to buy from there, and even if you didn't, you still get good value for the money on the product that YOU purchased. Again, I REPEAT, QUIXTAR PRODUCTS ARE OVERPRICED!!!

SNOTURKY -> All the business is asking you to do is to change your buying habits and drive business to the internet. You buy everything you from your own company. Don't penny pinch. If you are complaining because you could spend all the time it takes to hop in you car, spend gas, put wear on your car, fight traffic, waste money on spontaneous buying, wait in line, haul groceries to the car, drive home, haul them into the house, and save 12 cents, then this. or any business, is not for you. You have to think like a business owner, not a consumer.

PERCEPTIVE -> Oh boy, here we go again! The ESSENCE/THRUST of my post above, ITSELF, is my rebuttal to this! But I will explain again. QUIXTAR PRODUCTS ARE WAY OVERPRICED! YOU ARE NOT PENNY-PINCHING WHEN YOU COMPARE PRICES WITH OTHER RETAIL STORES LIKE WAL-MART. YOU ARE JUST BEING SMART!!! TELLING SOMEONE ELSE TO BUY OVERPRICED PRODUCTS SO THAT I CAN GET A COMMISSION IS UNETHICAL!!!!!

Better yet, why don't we do this. You cut and paste your total purchases for your own use through Quixtar for the last 12 months here. JUST YOUR SHOPPING CART. None of your identity/c.c. related data. Show us how you spend $250/mnth, and show us how you do a 100 PV every month. Hold on, let me up the ante a little. If you are a Platinum, show us your TREE, the people in your down-line, how many people you have underneath you, and how much is the AVERAGE PV in that group. OR, if you are NOT Platinum yet ;-), why don't you ask your Platinum to post that information here? HE WILL, BELIEVE ;-)) ME!! 'wink' 'wink'

SNOTURKY -> Also consider this: Could you make a successful Quixtar business without ever signing up a single IBO? Of course you can. Then you are not a franchise owner, but a product marketer. Some people do that.

PERCEPTIVE -> Newsflash, Mr.Principle! ALL Franchises SELL/RETAIL a specific product, they DON'T prospect a customer to sell him another franchise. That's the TRUE DEFINITION OF A FRANCHISE.

QUICK NOTE TO THE READER. IN THAT LAST PARAGRAPH (Newsflash, Mr. Principle!........OF A FRANCHISE.) THE CORRECT WORD SHOULD HAVE BEEN 'FRANCHISEE'. KEY POINT, IN MY REBUTTAL, TO THE REBUTTAL THAT SNOTURKY SENT, IN RESPONSE TO THIS. I will be posting it shortly.

11 Comments:

At 8:10 PM, Blogger ChrisA said...

Awesome dude, you rock. Keep up the good work exposing this scam.

 
At 10:06 PM, Blogger perceptive said...

Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement. Keep visiting, I have more interesting ;-) stuff coming up. I attended a fairly large size meeting this Tuesday, and I caught a 'Diamond' lying. I asked a lot of uncomfortable ;-)questions to the other speaker (the 'Diamond' just walked away without answering my question). He tried to brush me off on to the guy who had invited me, but I kept insisting that he answer my questions from the stage so that all ;-) the people could hear it.

Suffice it to say, it was an interesting ;-)) evening. I will post the details as soon as I get a little time.

 
At 12:36 PM, Blogger Joecool18 said...

Funny how all these diamonds tell you to only speak to the big pins to learn about the business. Why don't they allow former IBO's to speak so they can dispel all of the negative stuff from the stage? I'd volunteer for that mission!

Frankly, I think it's GOOD to hear about why some people may have quit/failed. It gives you a good perspective on things. If I were buying a McDonald's for example, I'd certainly want to hear about why some of them may have failed.
It would be to my benefit.

Great blog, keep up the great work!

 
At 3:39 AM, Blogger perceptive said...

Ah, but Joecool, here's the problem. They (i.e. Quixtar supporters) will always put the fault on the failed IBOs.

Like some Critic said (I can't remember where I read it), "If you succeed, it was because of the SYSTEM. If you fail, it was because of YOU."

 
At 11:15 AM, Blogger Joecool18 said...

Yes, the system and the diamonds are touted for the successes, but the overwhleming number of failure are attributed to the individual's shortcomings. That's what the kingpins teach. It's much the same like you're winner if you're in the business, but if you're not, then you're broke loser.

 
At 4:50 PM, Blogger kizakki said...

I seam there are people in the world who have what we call"tall poppy syndrom". They like to pull other people down who have the guts to try to get ahead in life.The company Amway has been in business for 50 years. I get business advice from sucessful people who are crediable. Look up Amway on the stock exchange and any authorised direct selling gov agency. I came across this doing research. Jealousy gets you bitter in life so just get over it.

 
At 1:25 PM, Blogger thinkbeforeyouspeak said...

I am completely disgusted that someone would be so negative about something they are not a part of, especially a lot of the commenters. I wouldnt ask a football hopeful how to throw a ball and I hope you wouldnt either (though thats what you are doing for others), I would as the varsity QB. You dont ask for information from the guy who dropped out of med school, you go to your doctor. I am in this business.. no longer amway, completely restructured. For some people its worth it to get higher quality products without the hassle of the malls. SOME PEOPLE realize you dont compare polo jeans with wal-mart jeans... of corse they cost more, they are also a better quality. This concept is applied to all of the products.
COnsidering how you feel about Quixtar how do you feel about refferal schemes such as Melaluca, baeuticontrol, marykay... also none of which are pyramids. By the way, since you obiously dont know, pyramids are when the person at the bottom can never surpass the person at the top in private franchising/affiliate marketing/multi-level marketing you can alwas pass anyone based on your effort level... trust me I know cause I have.. I passed my sponsor after being in the business for less than 2 months. On the other hand, when i look at corporate america i can see no boss who will show you and teach you how to pass them up, and doing better often times means your fired (ie - why i got into the business i was fired for being "over qualified" when a new manager took over our store and the old manager had left and asked that i replace her) which suggests to me that corporate ameria man in fact be a pyramid...

 
At 12:53 AM, Blogger Robbin said...

right on to the ibo who posted that last comment. to the dude that posted this original blog, get a life! it's pretty rediculous to me that you are so obsessed with trying to prove others wrong that as a hobby you would attend a function just so that you can cause trouble. do you have any worthwhile goals? it sounds like you're probably not very happy in life. do you live in your parents basement? you must not be married or have kids if you have the free time to go to business meetings just to make fun of it. you call yourself a christian. i don't think you're setting a very good example of a christian. wwjd? I don't think he would do what you're doing. so knock it off. it's really not okay.

 
At 12:54 AM, Blogger Robbin said...

right on to the ibo who posted that last comment. to the dude that posted this original blog, get a life! it's pretty rediculous to me that you are so obsessed with trying to prove others wrong that as a hobby you would attend a function just so that you can cause trouble. do you have any worthwhile goals? it sounds like you're probably not very happy in life. do you live in your parents basement? you must not be married or have kids if you have the free time to go to business meetings just to make fun of it. you call yourself a christian. i don't think you're setting a very good example of a christian. wwjd? I don't think he would do what you're doing. so knock it off. it's really not okay.

 
At 12:54 AM, Blogger Robbin said...

right on to the ibo who posted that last comment. to the dude that posted this original blog, get a life! it's pretty rediculous to me that you are so obsessed with trying to prove others wrong that as a hobby you would attend a function just so that you can cause trouble. do you have any worthwhile goals? it sounds like you're probably not very happy in life. do you live in your parents basement? you must not be married or have kids if you have the free time to go to business meetings just to make fun of it. you call yourself a christian. i don't think you're setting a very good example of a christian. wwjd? I don't think he would do what you're doing. so knock it off. it's really not okay.

 
At 4:52 AM, Blogger Arindam said...

Hi there, I am new to this. I also have my views expressed at http://smartliving.over-blog.com. You may ignore the truths, but the sive of the Private franchisee has grown 5 times in the last 10 years. can you really brush that aside????

 

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