Wednesday, November 23, 2005

HOW I GOT INTO THIS.....

I was first prospected by a Quixtar/Amway IBO about 4-5 years ago. I listened to the pitch, and was initially interested. But when I started asking some hard questions (a topic I will explore in detail in a minute) all I got was evasive nonsense. Tapespeak, if you will. Of course, I didn't know about the SYSTEM scam at that time. And he kept harping about bestselling author Robert Kiyosaki's book RICH DAD, POOR DAD.

Later on, when I got home after my conversation with him, I did a google-search on Kiyosaki, and guess what? I chanced upon John T Reed's (WestPoint Graduate, Vietnam Vet, Harvard MBA, Successful Real Estate Investor & Author) blistering review of Kiyosaki's book! OUCH!! ;-) Man, I would hate to be Kiyosaki ;-).... I have an undergraduate degree in Mech. Engg. and an MBA with a concentration in Finance. I am NOT trying to brag (Quixtar/Amway IBOs will usually try to impugn the credibility of a critic by questioning his credentials), but I can say at the cost of modesty that I was always good at numbers. I borrowed the book from the library after reading the review, and found out that John T Reed was right on target - the book was pure drivel! Especially, Kiyosaki's anecdote about his investment in Real Estate Notes, was positively HILARIOUS ;-)! I fell off from my chair ;-)) laughing!! ANYBODY who has taken even an Introductory Course in Finance or understands TimeValueOfMoney Principles (the fundamental principle in Finance) would agree with me.

Going back to the hard questions (read the analysis of the cost and time it takes to run this business, explained by a former Quixtar IBO). When the guy presented the whole 'buy $250 (100 PV) worth of stuff every month and teach others to do the same' (F.Y.I., this advice is ILLEGAL) scheme, my first question was, WHAT THE HELL CAN YOU BUY FOR $250 EVERY MONTH FROM QUIXTAR?? I mean, how much soap, how much detergent, how much deodorant, how much toothpaste, how much toilet-paper, can you buy in a month?? I asked him how much stuff he was buying from Quixtar every month, for his own use? He immediately changed the subject! I figured right away that most people can't buy $250 (100 PV) worth of stuff every month, UNLESS the products are WAY OVERPRICED! So, I asked him if the prices are comparable to products on the market/in retail stores? He immediately said, the prices of the products don't matter, because even if you pay more for the products (say $100 every month), you still make money by recruiting a lot of people underneath you. (Of course, you didn't have to be a genius at this point to figure out that the products WERE overpriced, which is why he was pitching the recruiting angle) So, I asked him if it was ETHICAL for me to tell somebody else to spend/waste an extra $100 every month so that I could make a profit off of them??!! His answer was, "well, he can recruit other people too and make a profit off of their consumption". So, what about the other people that are recruited? Wouldn't they be forced to spend/waste an extra $100 every month, also? His Predicable Answer? Well they too can recruit more people! So, I kept pushing the argument further and further along these lines.... BUT, the population on the earth is finite, and EVENTUALLY, there WILL BE some people (a majority, I dare say) who will be LEFT HOLDING THE BAG!! At this point he just gave up and told me to read Kiyosaki's book, and that Kiyosaki recommends this business.

THIS ethical question, was my fundamental problem with the business. You can ONLY profit off of the LOSS of OTHER PEOPLE! But I couldn't fathom the fanatical devotion and conviction of these people, how, inspite of the truth being rubbed in their face they couldn't see it. I was left scratching my head! With resignation, I attributed it to the lavish life-style of the guys at the top of the pyramid, that they are repeatedly shown. And that powerful hook, the promise of residual income and the promise of unlimited time to spend with family. I didn't know about TOOLS/SYSTEM SCAM at this point.

My questions were answered while reading John T Reed's review of Kiyosaki's book. He had a link to the mother-lode, the bible of all Quixtar/Amway related information, the marvelous site by Scott Larsen, http://www.amquix.info/, where I found out what was motivating these IBOs, and what was the source of the wealth of the guys at the top of the pyramid. I was nauseated, especially as I read further and found all the distortions of scripture that these people indulged in. I was horrified as I read account after account after account, of how people's finances, friendships and marriages were destroyed!

I became obsessed and as I scoured the internet for more information, I found other critics' websites, including Russell Glasser (The Perils Of Amway, one of the funniest websites). To quote Russell, I also got a ;-) 'Lone Ranger' Complex.... I decided that I had to do my part, do my civic duty. To inform potential recruits about these deceptions. So every time I got prospected I would listen patiently, and if I got a chance to go to an Open Meeting, I would go there and try to reach out to the potential new recruits. Often times, when it seemed like the guy prospecting me was suspicious and wouldn't invite me to an open meeting, I would put him on the spot by presenting the evidence to refute all the lies, deceptions, and half-truths he had told me (I would always take copious notes of whatever they would say - maybe I should start taping them). I would then try to convince him to either get out or not indulge in these despicable acts. Or, I'd threaten to report him to the FTC for violating the retail sales rules.

Needless to say, I have had some interesting ;-) experiences..... I had a VERY interesting one yesterday, which I will write about shortly. I will also try to recollect my experiences over the past 5 years and recount them here.Why do I do this, you ask? One, I hope that somebody who is a potential recruit will chance upon this blog and be informed of the truth, and hopefully be dissuaded. Second, I hope [actually I think I am ;-) sure], Quixtar/Amway IBOs will read this and be scared of feeding lies, deceptions and half-truths when prospecting strangers....

Stay tuned....

17 Comments:

At 9:11 PM, Blogger insider said...

He immediately said, the prices of the products don't matter, because even if you pay more for the products (say $100 every month), you still make money by recruiting a lot of people underneath you

He really said that? Oh good grief. Someone take him out and slap him around (metaphorically speaking of course ;-)). Idiots like that make it damn hard for those of us trying to actually build a proper business with this concept.

Now, as you are aware from my postings on the mlmlaw blog and elsewhere, there is not and never has been a "retail sales rule". Be critical of what deserves criticism, don't waste your time on the myths. The critics and the raving loony IBOs are as guilty as each other on that count. Same goes for John T. Reeds site. Most of his advice about "gurus" applies just as much for him as Kiyosaki and others! Take it all with a grain of salt. You might want to read these reviews to get a WIDE variety of opinions on Reed's stuff.

Incidentally, despite Reed's beliefs, Rich Dad was a real person - I know his identity.

 
At 11:36 PM, Blogger perceptive said...

INSIDER -> He really said that? Oh good grief. Someone take him out and slap him around (metaphorically speaking of course ;-)).

PERCEPTIVE -> Very funny. You are quite the jester. So, just like EVERY AMBOT/QUIXBOT out there you are IMPLYING that this was an isolated case. Newsflash! This was the standard response to my question every single time. And I have been prospected by an IBO, on an average at least once every two months! That's not counting all the guys who are desperately hanging around you, trying to make eye contact, to start a conversation - guys who I have spotted right away as an AMBOT/QUIXBOT and therefore scrupulously avoid ;-)) making eye contact with! I usually spend Sunday afternoons after Church and lunch, at Barnes&Noble reading. I am usually wearing a suit, because I have come straight from church. I guess, going by the standard IBO code - always wear a suit and look professional - maybe I LOOK ;-) like the perfect prospect. At first, I thought these guys were gay ;-), and hitting on me.... So my immediate VISCERAL ;-) reaction would be, "Whoa, buddy, I don't drive on that side of the road"... But eventually I figured out that they were just AMBOTS/QUIXBOTS, doing what they were trained [by the ;-) great, grand SYSTEM] to do!

INSIDER -> Idiots like that make it damn hard for those of us trying to actually build a proper business with this concept.

PERCEPTIVE -> WHAT business CONCEPT??? You make me laugh! LOSE MONEY (pay more for stuff), and TEACH OTHERS to DO THE SAME? Now, THERE'S ;-)) a concept!! So, why don't you address the FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE that was raised in this post - that Quixtar Products are OVERPRICED! Care to do that? Oh, wait a minute, you did NOT even deny OR agree that Quixtar products are overpriced. You just SKIRTED the issue! BRAVE MAN!

INSIDER -> Now, as you are aware from my postings on the mlmlaw blog and elsewhere, there is not and never has been a "retail sales rule".

PERCEPTIVE -> Oh, I am QUITE aware of your postings on the MLMLAW blog (www.mlmlaw.blogspot.com). But just because you posted your comments there doesn't make it automatically valid. I have posted my comments there myself. And, exactly WHO made you the LEGAL AUTHORITY regarding the "Retail Sales Rule"?? So, YOU are RIGHT, and the TENS of COURT DECISIONS, STATUTES and ESTABLISHED CASE LAW are WRONG?? How about we let the readers make that decision? Here are the threads where this issue is discussed alongwith yours, and other comments.

http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2005/11/what-happened-in-1979.html

http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2004/08/single-most-important-word-in-mlm.html

http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2005/01/lets-talk-about-seventy-percent-rule.html

http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2005/11/quixtar-bets-farm.html

INSIDER -> You might want to read these reviews to get a WIDE variety of opinions on Reed's stuff.

PERCEPTIVE -> Oh, sure, I read those reviews too. But, if you looked carefully, you would see that ALL of John T Reed's critics resort to the SAME tactic that IBOs use - attack the MESSENGER, instead of the MESSAGE. Not ONE critical review on that website has pointed out what exactly is INCORRECT/FALSE/NOT LOGICAL/NOT SOUND FINANCIAL ADVICE, on John T Reed's website. So, again, we'll leave it to the readers to make a judgement as to whether John T Reed's reviews/advice makes sense - what say? Or, perhaps, the EXPERT that you are, YOU would care to point out the fallacies in John T Reed's arguments/reviews??

INSIDER -> Incidentally, despite Reed's beliefs, Rich Dad was a real person - I know his identity.

PERCEPTIVE -> And YOU know that, HOW?? Let me guess, Kiyosaki called you and told you?? That's quite a surprise, because even after a lot of prodding, Kiyosaki has been very evasive about his 'Rich Dad', so far.

And let's ASSUME, just for argument's sake that Kiyosaki did have a 'Rich Dad', that he didn't create the character out of thin air. WHAT does THAT prove anyways?? Does THAT make his FINANCIAL ADVICE any more legitimate?? I guess, my question to you, Insider, is, "What's your point"??

 
At 11:54 PM, Blogger perceptive said...

PERCEPTIVE ->Oh, by the way, one more exposition for people who want to do a little more detailed research into the "Retail Sales Rule"

http://amquix.info/quixtar_pyramid_rebuttal.html

 
At 5:23 PM, Blogger snoturky said...

I agree with your principles, but I don't think you understand the business completely.

It is a simple franchise, it just looks funny because it doesn't cost a million to open and upkeep. Compare it to Taco Bell. I could own a Taco Bell, or several if I wanted to. I could sell one of my Taco Bell's to someone else, and take a cut of their sales, whether they buy the tacos or their customers do. Same Idea.

I'm sure you'll say that if everyone owns a Taco Bell, no one can make any money. Yup, that's absolutely right... and no different than any other business on Earth. That is also why they have a requirement to have certain sales to non-owning customers every month.

Now you're going to tell me that some people aren't honest about whether they meet those reqs or not.

You are trying to claim that the business is illegal because some people who use it do unethical or illegal things.

Better outlaw knives because someone might use one illegally.

I do not necesarilly agree with what certain people in the business do, what they have told people to do, or what they have said about the business, but I can say this - The business itself is totally legitimate.

The easiest way to sum up the business model is this:

Pretend that you have a choice to shop at Target or K-Mart. Target is just Target, but K-Mart will give you a % savings based upon the amount of money you spend there. And what's more, is that your friend can do it to. He will get his savings, but you'll get a referal fee as well.

You can talk about the products all you want, but the truth is that higher quality stuff costs more. I have done a few comparisons myself quite a while ago and have found that most of the stuff is cheaper, not to mention far better.

All the business is asking you to do is to change your buying habits and drive business to the internet. You buy everything you from your own company. Don't penny pinch. If you are complaining because you could spend all the time it takes to hop in you car, spend gas, put wear on your car, fight traffic, waste money on spontaneous buying, wait in line, haul groceries to the car, drive home, haul them into the house, and save 12 cents, then this. or any business, is not for you. You have to think like a business owner, not a consumer.

Quixtar, nor anyone, guarantess that you will make money from only buying stuff. In no business in the world can you make money without providing a good or service. It is up to you to find customers in order to start making money.

Also consider this: Could you make a successful Quixtar business without ever signing up a single IBO? Of course you can. Then you are not a franchise owner, but a product marketer. Some people do that.

 
At 12:33 AM, Blogger perceptive said...

SNOTURKY -> I agree with your principles, but I don't think you understand the business completely.

PERCEPTIVE -> GLAD to know that you agree with my principles. I presume you are referring to CHRISTIAN principles, and I presume I don't have to explain what they are? So, IF I prove to you that the Quixtar Business is inherently UNETHICAL, you WILL QUIT the business, right? And you WILL TELL all the other people that you have RECRUITED, to QUIT? Promise me that?


SNOTURKY -> It is a simple franchise, it just looks funny because it doesn't cost a million to open and upkeep. Compare it to Taco Bell. I could own a Taco Bell, or several if I wanted to. I could sell one of my Taco Bell's to someone else, and take a cut of their sales, whether they buy the tacos or their customers do. Same Idea.

PERCEPTIVE -> Okay, so you sell one of your Taco Bells to someone else, and take a cut of their sales - I guess you are referring to a partnership here? Now what happens if you and that guy (the two OWNERS of this Taco Bell franchise) are the only ones who consume the Tacos sold at this franchise? What happens if there are NO CUSTOMERS who buy the food, BECAUSE THE PRICES ARE TOO HIGH, OR IT DOESN'T REPRESENT GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY? The business would SHUT DOWN, right? Okay. Now, what if YOU KNEW that the PRICES ARE TOO HIGH AND IT'S NOT GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY, I.E. CUSTOMERS OUTSIDE OF THE BUSINESS WOULDN'T BUY IT (as IS the case with Quixtar)? And, let's say, INSPITE OF KNOWING THIS TRUTH, YOU DID NOT TELL THE POTENTIAL BUYER OF THE FRANCHISE, THIS UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH, AND HE ENDS UP BUYING THE FRANCHISE AND LOSING MONEY. Would you agree with me, that WHAT YOU DID HERE WAS UNETHICAL? Let's take this further. Quixtar/Amway IBOs constantly talk about McDonald's Franchisees having to go Hamburger University for training, and compare the SYSTEM to that. Here's the DIFFERENCE. McDonald's Franchisees have to go to Hamburger University ONLY ONCE, and the cost of the training is ONLY A FRACTION OF THE SALES FOR A STORE. Sure, they will have ongoing updates to their training when new products or systems are introduced, but again, the COSTS ARE A VERY VERY SMALL FRACTION OF THEIR SALES. But, with Quixtar, the SO-CALLED training SYSTEM [I can't help doubling over in laughter every time I hear about the ;-) SYSTEM] that is forced upon the IBOs, THE COSTS INVARIABLY EXCEED THEIR SALES COMMISSIONS/BONUSES. PLUS, McDonald's/TacoBell WOULD NEVER NEVER EVER GIVE INDIVIDUAL FRANCHISEES A CUT OF THE TRAINING SYSTEM COSTS!!!! I am sure you will counter with the argument that these costs are an investment, and that eventually their sales bonuses will exceed the cost of the system. But HERE's the rub. The SO-CALLED TRAINING SYSTEM/TOOLS INVARIABLY DO NOT PROVIDE ANY INFORMATION AT ALL ABOUT RUNNING THE BUSINESS! I have listened to hundreds of tapes and CDs and they are usually HYPE about where this business is HEADED, or HYPE about how GOOD the SYSTEM is, or HYPE about how a job is not good for financial security, or that you SHOULD use the SYTEM IF YOU HAVE TO SUCCEED. The second kind of CD/Tape, can be summarized in THREE SENTENCES - JOB, NOT GOOD, NO SECURITY. CONVENTIONAL BUSINESS TOO RISKY. ONE BUSINESS GOOD, THE AMWAY/QUIXTAR BUSINESS. ;-)) LOL!! No kidding! I have listened to dozens of tapes whose message can be summarized to essentially those three sentences! And each of these THREE sentences are usually supported by UNSUBSTANTIATED/UNLIKELY ANECDOTES, OUTDATED STATISTICS, BLATANT FALSEHOODS, HALF-TRUTHS etc. I am being prospected by a guy (decent Christian guy, but totally deluded) right now, who is in the DexterYager System, and he gave me some CDs to listen to. I am reeling him in slowly, I am going to buy him and his wife a nice lunch this Sunday after church, and then poke holes in his whole presentation and then try to DE-CULTIFY ;-)) him. One of those CDs that he gave me has that famous quote, 98% of people are either dead or broke by age 65 - I will let the readers read this link and decide for themselves, the accuracy of that statement.
http://amquix.info/amway_retirement_legend.html
SYSTEM, MY FOOT! Gimme a break!!

So, to SUMMARIZE, the Taco Bell Franchise that you sold to another guy and that you are taking a cut off of the sales - the Guy who bought the franchise WILL LOSE MONEY, BECAUSE THE PRODUCTS ARE NOT GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY, AND HE CAN'T RETAIL THE PRODUCTS TO CONSUMERS WHO ARE NOT IN THE BUSINESS. Secondly, he WILL LOSE MONEY, BECAUSE HE WILL BE BRAINWASHED INTO USING A SO-CALLED TRAINING SYSTEM THAT IS TOTALLY WORTHLESS, AND WILL COST MORE THAN HIS SALES BONUSES. Thirdly, YOU HAVEN'T TOLD HIM THAT YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BECAUSE YOU WILL ALSO GET (WHEN YOU REACH DIRECT) A CUT OF THE COST OF THE TRAINING SYSTEM!!

So, IT WOULD BE UNETHICAL FOR YOU TO SELL THIS FRANCHISE TO HIM, RIGHT? And, YOU BEING THE PRINCIPLED, CHRISTIAN GUY, YOU ARE GOING TO STOP DOING THIS RIGHT? And, ALSO INFORM YOUR OTHER RECRUITS ABOUT THE TRUTH?


SNOTURKY -> I'm sure you'll say that if everyone owns a Taco Bell, no one can make any money. Yup, that's absolutely right... and no different than any other business on Earth. That is also why they have a requirement to have certain sales to non-owning customers every month.
Now you're going to tell me that some people aren't honest about whether they meet those reqs or not. You are trying to claim that the business is illegal because some people who use it do unethical or illegal things. Better outlaw knives because someone might use one illegally.

PERCEPTIVE -> GREAT! So, you DO ADMIT that RETAILING is the ONLY way to PROFITABILITY! But, here's the problem - QUIXTAR PRODUCTS CAN NOT BE RETAILED SUCCESSFULLY BECAUSE THEY ARE OVERPRICED!! If any reader doesn't agree with me, he/she can become a member for $20 for a year, and do a price comparison themselves. Or go through all the links on the above post, which have price comparisons. Also, tangentially you brought up the problem of OVERSATURATION and UNHEALTHY COMPETITION in a specific market. Tim, on the RandomObservations Blog did a FANTASTIC job of addressing this issue. I will let the readers read this thread and make up their minds.
http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/archives/000488.html
Readers might also want to click on the 'Quixtar' link on his blog under the 'Topics' section and read all his posts. MARVELOUS EXPOSITION of the economics of this business.


SNOTURKY -> I do not necesarilly agree with what certain people in the business do, what they have told people to do, or what they have said about the business, but I can say this - The business itself is totally legitimate.

PERCEPTIVE -> Okay, let's see. RICH DEVOS, one of the FOUNDERS of the company himself, talked in his DirectlySpeakingTapes (you can listen to it at www.amquix.info) about all the abuses, deceptions, income misrepresentations, system-money, conflicts of interest, cult-like-tactics etc. ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO. THEY WERE AWARE OF IT 30 YEARS AGO, AND THEY WERE AWARE THAT IT WAS NOT AN ISOLATED PROBLEM BUT IT WAS A BROAD SYSTEMIC PROBLEM!! HE SAID THEY WOULD CRACK DOWN ON IT, BUT DIDN'T!! AND THE PROBLEMS, CONTINUE TO THIS DAY! THE VERY SAME, EXACT PROBLEMS!!! We are NOT talking about the isolated IBO doing something unethical! THIS IS A SYSTEMATIC PROBLEM THAT HAS CONTINUED, WITH THE KNOWLEDGE AND COMPLICITY OF THE AMWAY/QUIXTAR CORPORATION'S OWNERS, FOR 30 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! SOME LEGITIMACY, THAT!!!


SNOTURKY -> You can talk about the products all you want, but the truth is that higher quality stuff costs more. I have done a few comparisons myself quite a while ago and have found that most of the stuff is cheaper, not to mention far better.

PERCEPTIVE -> Higher ;-)) Quality? Do you have any independent studies/reports to support that contention? If so, PLEASE do tell us about it. Although I won't be holding my breath.

It's funny how at first you say, "truth is that higher quality stuff costs more". Seems to me you are implying/agreeing ;-) that Quixtar products do cost more. THEN you turn around and say, "I have done a few comparisons myself quite a while ago and have found that most of the stuff is cheaper". So, what is it? Are Quixtar Products HIGHER QUALITY or are they CHEAPER??? CARE TO POST YOUR PRICE COMPARISON HERE?


SNOTURKY -> Pretend that you have a choice to shop at Target or K-Mart. Target is just Target, but K-Mart will give you a % savings based upon the amount of money you spend there. And what's more, is that your friend can do it to. He will get his savings, but you'll get a referal fee as well.

PERCEPTIVE -> Yes, but, K-Mart products ARE COMPETITIVELY-PRICED!! So, it is easy to refer somebody else to buy from there, and even if you didn't, you still get good value for the money on the product that YOU purchased. Again, I REPEAT, QUIXTAR PRODUCTS ARE OVERPRICED!!!


SNOTURKY -> All the business is asking you to do is to change your buying habits and drive business to the internet. You buy everything you from your own company. Don't penny pinch. If you are complaining because you could spend all the time it takes to hop in you car, spend gas, put wear on your car, fight traffic, waste money on spontaneous buying, wait in line, haul groceries to the car, drive home, haul them into the house, and save 12 cents, then this. or any business, is not for you. You have to think like a business owner, not a consumer.

PERCEPTIVE -> Oh boy, here we go again! The ESSENCE/THRUST of my post above, ITSELF, is my rebuttal to this! But I will explain again. QUIXTAR PRODUCTS ARE WAY OVERPRICED! YOU ARE NOT PENNY-PINCHING WHEN YOU COMPARE PRICES WITH OTHER RETAIL STORES LIKE WAL-MART. YOU ARE JUST BEING SMART!!! TELLING SOMEONE ELSE TO BUY OVERPRICED PRODUCTS SO THAT I CAN GET A COMMISSION IS UNETHICAL!!!!!

Better yet, why don't we do this. You cut and paste your total purchases for your own use through Quixtar for the last 12 months here. JUST YOUR SHOPPING CART. None of your identity/c.c. related data. Show us how you spend $250/mnth, and show us how you do a 100 PV every month. Hold on, let me up the ante a little. If you are a Platinum, show us your TREE, the people in your down-line, how many people you have underneath you, and how much is the AVERAGE PV in that group. OR, if you are NOT Platinum yet ;-), why don't you ask your Platinum to post that information here? HE WILL, BELIEVE ME ;-)) !! 'wink' 'wink'


SNOTURKY -> Also consider this: Could you make a successful Quixtar business without ever signing up a single IBO? Of course you can. Then you are not a franchise owner, but a product marketer. Some people do that.

PERCEPTIVE -> Newsflash, Mr.Principle! ALL Franchises SELL/RETAIL a specific product, they DON'T prospect a customer to sell him another franchise. That's the TRUE DEFINITION OF A FRANCHISE.

 
At 9:34 PM, Blogger perceptive said...

I LIKE this 'snoturky' guy. No profanity, no name calling, and he's got a good sense of ;-) humor too. AND, he seems to be a LITTLE more logical than the usual raving lunatic AMBOT/QUIXBOTs that you see on the blogs. He's posted a comment that's a rebuttal of my rebuttal. Very lengthy one. So I am going to put it on a separate post by ITSELF, and then post my comments on it. He made a little wise-crack ;-) at the end of that rebuttal - I am going to post that here.

SNOTURKY -> Just as a side note - You shouldn't post in caps so much. I understand that it's easy to write in all caps when one is frustrated, but it's very distracting to read and does not speak well about the writer. :)

PERCEPTIVE -> Okay, I am posting in Caps, because I am trying to EMPHASIZE that particular word/phrase/sentence. Sometimes, I want a few words or sentences to stand out in a whole paragraph, so that the reader walks away with that image in their mind, hopefully well-entrenched. Remember, I am a man on a :-)) mission, right?? I haven't quite figured out how to do Italics ;-) in the comments section, yet. It's not because of frustration, ALTHOUGH, I have to admit, sometimes it is INDEED frustrating when I have to write pages and pages to explain a SIMPLE concept ;-). Perhaps you could give me a few tips on how to create links, bold text, italicize text etc.??

 
At 10:52 AM, Blogger snoturky said...

I'm not very familiar with this blog site. I signed up just to post here. I just wanted to know if you have posted my last comment somewhere yet, and where I could find it when you do. Thanks!

 
At 12:18 PM, Blogger perceptive said...

Snoturky, read my last comment. I have mentioned there that I will posting your last comments on a 'separate' post by itself, alongiwth my rebuttal. I am kind of busy right now, but it will be over the weekend. i.e. My NEXT post will basically be your comments/rebuttal, alongwith my rebuttal to that.

 
At 2:10 PM, Blogger perceptive said...

By the way, I have another lengthy rebuttal of INSIDER's comments about the Retail Sales Rule on this post:

http://quixtaramwayinfiltrator.blogspot.com/2005/12/insiders-obsession-with-retail-sales.html

 
At 1:14 PM, Blogger Joecool18 said...

The quixtar opportunity is quite simple:

Lose money buying overpriced products and useless tools, and teach others to do the same. If you get enough suckers to believe it, you'll be a diamond!

 
At 12:22 PM, Blogger onelife2live said...

why is an a opinion free yet it can cost you in some cases your life why want people die for facts "the cowards never started; the weak died along the way; the strong survive" it takes no courage to not control your life when someone or something esle controls it for you ($)

 
At 1:30 PM, Blogger thinkbeforeyouspeak said...

I am completely disgusted that someone would be so negative about something they are not a part of, especially a lot of the commenters. I wouldnt ask a football hopeful how to throw a ball and I hope you wouldnt either (though thats what you are doing for others), I would as the varsity QB. You dont ask for information from the guy who dropped out of med school, you go to your doctor. I am in this business.. no longer amway, completely restructured. For some people its worth it to get higher quality products without the hassle of the malls. SOME PEOPLE realize you dont compare polo jeans with wal-mart jeans... of corse they cost more, they are also a better quality. This concept is applied to all of the products.
COnsidering how you feel about Quixtar how do you feel about refferal schemes such as Melaluca, baeuticontrol, marykay... also none of which are pyramids. By the way, since you obiously dont know, pyramids are when the person at the bottom can never surpass the person at the top in private franchising/affiliate marketing/multi-level marketing you can alwas pass anyone based on your effort level... trust me I know cause I have.. I passed my sponsor after being in the business for less than 2 months. On the other hand, when i look at corporate america i can see no boss who will show you and teach you how to pass them up, and doing better often times means your fired (ie - why i got into the business i was fired for being "over qualified" when a new manager took over our store and the old manager had left and asked that i replace her) which suggests to me that corporate ameria man in fact be a pyramid...

 
At 10:41 PM, Blogger PeteyPao said...

thinkbeforeyouspeak,

Consider this: if stealing was rampant in my neighborhood, and I'm sick and tired of seeing all my friends getting robbed, wouldn't it be in my and their best interest to do something about the robberies?

Quixtar is the same. It contributes NO VALUES to the human race, and leaves all its followers in financial ruin, marital problems, the whole gamut.

I don't have to be a professional robber to speak out against the crimes in my neighborhood. As such, I don't have to be involved in Quixtar to tell any unwary prospects to stay away.

 
At 8:04 AM, Blogger swishallday said...

You are an idiot.

 
At 10:13 PM, Blogger Levi said...

I have an intresting discussion about the real pyrimid scheme going on you can find it at therealpyrimidscheme.blogspot.com

I will leave a short comment here to sort of add to your humor here.

tell me if you can how does an employee someone who has worked at the bottom of someone elses pyramid and never had to work harder than punching a time clock and complaining in the break room know how a business is ran or even what pyramids are anyways. newsflash pyramids are everywhere and you are involved in more ways then you think but then again there is that word THINK. you see you have to think outside the box in order to be more than an employee sitting on a computer late at night bashing the people wanting to be something more in life when you should be going to bed so you can get up and go to your miserable job cause apparently you are unhappy in life you need a hug, or a role model or something. it must hurt don't it to know that pyramids and multi level marketing is just too much for you to handle so you bash it. smooth move. check out my site sometime i would love to hear more hollar back

 
At 5:19 PM, Blogger Octavia said...

I was at work yesterday cleaning up at the end of a shift with a coworker when we were approached by a man who said he'd noticed we were 'working very hard and didn't stop', and thought we'd be good 'employees' in his business. I straight away thought, 'yeah, yeah, whatever', and he rambled on for about another 5 minutes where I wasn't really listening, then I asked at the end 'so what exactly is it that you do'? He said 'well, I'll confuse the hell out of you, so basically, we pool our resources together and make a lot of money'. Way to be ambiguous!

He suggested that we should go to a 'business' meeting the next night (tonight) to hear more about it, and handed us a business card which just said 'PRIVATE FRANCHISE', his and his partner's phone numbers and their PO BOX address. I asked if he had a website so I could read more about the proposition, and he said no. He asked us to message him and let him know if we planned to go.

As soon as he left, my coworker asked me 'are you going'. I straight away said no, then asked her if she was. She said she was considering it. I got home, and asked my boyfriend what he thought, and he suggested not to go because it was probably a waste of time and some sort of direct marketing scam. I told my coworker, she still wanted to check it out.

Later, on a whim I searched 'private franchise' on google, not expecting to find anything, and this site was the first result. Well, now I am absolutely sure I don't want anything to do with it, hopefully I can convince my coworker!

 
At 3:57 AM, Blogger Šlamštapaštis said...

It's all the same with IBOs all over the World. My brother and his wife got into AMWAY and didn't make any income during 5 years of countless tries to get new people into AMWAY. For me it's no different than all these wackos running around with bibles, etc. I can't even have a proper family time with them because of them talking me into it... Now it became even worse - they started to call me via SKYPE and explain all that crap with a whiteboard and possible earnings.
I'm being told that my path is wrong and I'm selling 80% of my precious time for 20% income, while I could sacrifice only 20% of my time, earn five times more and keep that 80% of my time for my family... I will get broke and bankrupt in 3 years of time (successfully survived it and my turnover increases), they say.

Yet me alone make same amount of money (or even more) they both make put together. OK, I have to keep two jobs - one to keep me safe 7am to 3pm (in the office) and some hours after work providing IT services to local community and businesses (more a hobby with good income than a hard work), but I have enough money and time for me and my Ms :) Holiday trips 2-3 times a year, no heartburn or sleepless nights chasing numbers.

They have regular jobs, all their spare time goes to Amway and sadly, even after 5 years they earn less than they are spending on Amway toothpaste. Basically, they're funding Amway by buying CDs, books and other stuff. It's sad...
How this is not a church or some kind of cult?

 

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